Worried about toxicity of metal electrodes

Products made in Germany that I have tried with success.
qwerty
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Postby qwerty » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:47 pm

Any more updates on this topic?

Where can you buy these pure zinc electrodes?

admin
Site Admin
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Postby admin » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:55 pm

Hi Ric,

Dr. Zierer recommended Medec Systems to me last year, and this is what I found on the company's website (a link to one of their detox machines with zinc electrodes):

http://www.medec.tv/html/detox_2400.html

I might try ordering the zinc electrodes at some point and using them myself, but it would require my removing the red and black "connectors" on the existing HIDREX machine's electrodes and drilling through the zinc electrodes to make space for those "connectors".


Here is more from Dr. Zierer's second e-mail to me where I had several questions for him from his first response:


To give an imagination on the urinary concentration of chromium among the population of northern Germany which was publish by a validated laboratory: the average concentration is approminately 1 microgram / liter urine, which is regared as normal.

From workers exposed to chromium in galvano-factories we found an average concentration of 5 to 7 microgram chromium / liter urine.

Regarding an analysis of the urine one should consider to take the sample approximately 5 to 7 hours after exposure to galvano spa bath or iontophoresis, e.g. in the morning the application and drinking approx 1 to 2 liter of liquid and in the late afternoon the urinary sample (10 mL).

Electrodes made of pure aluminium or medical grade zinc (99,99%) such as detoxator would be recommended under our present knowledge. Detoxator electrodes (medical grade zinc) are distributed on the German market by a company named Medec Systems GmbH.

If someone wants to be clear on the safety of the electrodes used one can do a chemical analysis of the water after normal run - without exposure to the body (30 min of electrolysis). Best is to take distilled water in order to avoid cross contamination from the drinking water. Such an analysis should not cost more than 200 EURO (approx 12 elements, ICP-MS method, certified laboratory). If there is no e.g. chromium, arsenic, nickel, uranium or other toxic metals the electrode can be regared as being safe.

The sample taken from the electrolysis is stable up to 1 week, however must be collected in special devices for analysis of metals, provided by the lab, this is important to check. Samples can be sent to any lab in Europe by express-mail. One can find such laboratories in internet under the key-words "multi chemical analysis", "ICP-MS metals"

Hope the information can be followed and understood by layperson.


Last edited by admin on Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:54 am, edited 5 times in total.

qwerty
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Postby qwerty » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:00 am

Can you actually buy just the zinc electrode by themselves from that website? I couldn't find the link for them?

admin
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Postby admin » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:41 pm

Hi qwerty, I am not sure, since the site is in German. Even if you do buy them, you will have to modify the connections to be able to use them with other iontophoresis machines.

Markus has started selling silicone electrodes now, even though he thinks the concern about stainless steel electrodes is too much hype.

The maintenance requirements of steel electrodes are minimal. With silicone electrodes, somewhat frequent cleaning and replacement are necessary.

For now, I am sticking with the stainless steel electrodes.
Last edited by admin on Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

admin
Site Admin
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Postby admin » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:40 am

To update this thread, although I did not get any urine tests for chromium nor any tray water tests that Dr. Zierer recommended (cost = around 200 EURO in Germany), I did have a chest x-ray a few months ago when I was getting unusual persistent coughing and chest pain for the first time in my life. I thought it might be due to iontophoresis and the electrode material, but the x-rays came back with no issue whatsoever and the coughing and pain went away. Most likely it was some kind of winter related thing.

If someone does get chromium urine tests or the tray water tests Dr. Zierer suggested while undergoing iontophoresis therapy with steel electrodes and everything comes back normal, we could put this thread to rest! So please post your results here if you get such tests. I might do so in the future, but no guarantees.

My feet are not sweating at the moment due to Botox injections, but once the injections' effect wears off, I intend to get back to using my Idromed or HIDREX (with steel electrodes).

dtm1
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:48 am

worried about toxicity

Postby dtm1 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:59 am

Hi all,

Newbie here. I'm really interested in finding out about toxicity. After my electrode plates corroded (and I like to use separate plates for hands and feet since I suffer on and off from athletes foot and cannot dissinfect the metal without corroding it) I've been using foil trays from the supermarket. It's far cheaper since I'm a student and my dermatologist didn't see any problem with it but I'm really worried now that I've got heavy metal toxicity. I've got burning and aching pains on the skin all over my body (it feels just like sunburn) but no rash or visual changes. Doctor has given me antihistamines (two diff kinds) but they've not helped. Also get this shortness of breath with cough and chest pain every so often (persisted for over a year now-and x-rays show nothing...similar story to last post).

I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered this burning skin feeling? It's really getting me down and I stopped the treatment for over 2 months to see if any change. It seemed less bothersome but still always there. So have started treatment again 3 days ago as the sweating is unbearable but burning has now become really bad. Anyone reckon it's related?? Advice/ideas would really be appreciated. Thanks:)

Tara

pphh
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Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:02 pm

Postby pphh » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:23 pm

I switched from aluminum to stainless steel 6 months ago because I was slightly concerned about aluminum toxicity and I thought I was better safe than sorry. Further reading has shown that stainless steel also has potentially toxic elements, such as chromium molecules and even nickel and molybdenum.

As far as I know there are no studies relating specifically to this topic but there are plenty of studies that are relevant. Some describe ionto as harmless and others raise questions but don't give hard evidence.

Because the mechanism of ionto is still unknown it is impossible to say whether metal ions are the reason or just harmless ions found in tap water.
I know in a galvanic battery the salt bridge (effectively our hands) doesn't transport the metal ions but I don't know if this is relevant to us.

admin
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Postby admin » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm

I had this company's electrodes section bookmarked. Probably because someone e-mailed the link to me. Not sure if their electrodes are only for drug delivery iontophoresis machines:

http://www.empi.com/empi_products/detail.aspx?id=966

Spade of Blue
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:39 am

Postby Spade of Blue » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:09 pm

Hi Administrator (and all),

I too am suffering from HH in a bad way. Can't shake hands, armpits stink (changing shirts), showers don't help (I am a very clean person), and all that jazz.

I am looking for:
1. A machine without batteries
2. Usable in trips too (both 240v / 110v)
3. Little maintenance
4. Wont die from cancer because of

Now I can find my answer to 1-3 in the Idromed 5, but the Aluminum electrodes are poisonous in the long run, Stainless steel electrodes will give me lead / nickel / iron / chromium / cadmium / other niceties which I don't like.

Having read this fine thread, I'm left with:
1. Settling for Aluminum
2. Buying their offered Silicone electrodes
3. Or finding the holy-grail Zinc electrodes


I have a few questions I thought to ask before dropping 1000+ USD on equipment (sorry for the length):

1. Aluminum electrodes
1.1 What kind of maintenance is needed? I though wiping them dry after every use was enough...
1.2 How often do they need complete replacing, if ever?

2. Silicone electrodes
2.1 Whats the deal, health-wise, with these? are they better? just hype?
2.2 What kind of maintenance is needed for them compared to the Aluminum ones?
2.3 How often do they need complete replacing, if ever?

3. Zinc electrodes (golden-grail! - imagine holy opera voices in the background):
3.1 Where do I buy them without speaking German at http://www.medec.tv/html/detox_2400.html nor requiering a prescription without idea of price at http://www.empi.com/empi_products/detail.aspx?id=966?
3.2. As others, what kind of maintenance is needed?
3.3 As others, how often do they need replacing, if ever?


I wish there was some online store I could just pick a bulk of 20 pairs of Zinc's for a lifetime, forget about it, and also relax about not getting cancer from treatments... Or am I blowing this out of proportions and nickel-cadmium-chromium aint so bad?


I've just discovered your site yesterday - and out of relief that I'm not alone in this condition read the whole of it! Much thanks for putting this site up!


Regards, and thanks in advance,
- Spade of Blue

admin
Site Admin
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Postby admin » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:55 pm

Hi Spade of Blue,

I can understand your concerns. I never had any until Dr. Zierer sent me those e-mails! Even now, when I use my iontophoresis machine once or twice a week, I do not worry about this stuff. Its only when I stop using the machine and have to use it for 10 days in a row upon resumption that I start thinking about this issue. There are many people who have used steel electrodes or aluminum electrodes for decades with no side effects.

I have only used steel electrodes (and aluminum ones with Drionic for a month). I have not done any maintenance other than wiping the electrodes completely dry after each use.

You can buy the Hidrex PS machine for around $850 or try creating your own machine if you don't have the wherewithal to spend that much.

If you buy either of the machines I like, please do so via the banners on the appropriate pages on my site.

Spade of Blue
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:39 am

Postby Spade of Blue » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:13 pm

Hey Admin,

Thanks for answering. Still I am concerned about this issue, and is the sole reason for me not to go ahead with the purchase :?

Dr. Zierer says:
In conclusion one should avoid electrodes consisting of stainless steel for using in iontophoresis due to the possible induction of dermatitis and cancer.

The research says:
G. ) Conclusion
Taking all the scientific data together on the electrochemical spa bath, the user should be very careful operating on the V2A-stainless steel electrode. Due to toxic reactions on the human body, one should recommend not to use electrodes made of stainless steel, platinum, palladium or titanium, in medical electrotherapy operating on DC circuits.

... Of Zinc and Magnesium:
Elements being present in the human body such as sodium, potassium, magnesium or zinc are not usable as electrodes of the galvano-spa-bath due to their highly negative electrochemical potential, resulting in quick degradation of the material of the array under DC circuit. In addition, those elements are well-known for increase of the pH of the electrolytic solution: e.g. metallic sodium is reacting aggressively with water under generation of explosive concentrations of hydrogen. Magnesium and zinc are melting away under the influence of DC circuit of the electrochemical galvano-spa-bath and are also dissociating the solution.


So Zinc is out.
I'm lost now :|

Does anyone know about the Silicone electrodes (http://iontophoresis-device.com/sweating/spare-parts/big-silicone-electrodes.html) on the site?
My grandfather died of leukemia, and I myself try to be very aware of carcinogenic materials, let alone a treatment for the rest of my life :|


Will appreciate any insight or solution of course,
- Spade of Blue

aquarius
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:00 pm

Postby aquarius » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:50 pm

what about copper electrodes?

I'm using a home made device with plain copper wires as electrodes. I'm connecting 4 6V batteries and leading a copper wire into a glass tray each (directly into the water), that way you don't need an alligator clip.

The copper on the plus-pole is turning green, which is because of oxidation, and produces brochantite, malachite and azurite (read online), but how knows how these minerals react with skin.

I'm also concerned about the toxicity from electrodes, but I'm even more concerned about the purity of tap water. As with most tap waters, my tap water is filled with industrial chemicals..

bobbyt1
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:40 am

Postby bobbyt1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:45 am

I've had plantar zhH for my entire life and just realized that it might be curable thanks to this forum.

I got really interested at first in the Fischer MD machines but see that the Idromed unit seems to be the current recommended one. It helpsnthey have an 8 week money back guarantee.

However this thread caught my eye. I'm not normally paranoid about stuff like this, but the responses from scientists and the recent threads have me concerned. From what I can tell, stainless steel, zinc and aluminum have strong risk associated with them.

In particular the silicone pads seem interesting but o one has commented on the, from the perspective of safety or effectiveness.

Anyone have any new info on this?

coolate
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:50 am
Location: South Bend, IN
Contact:

Re: Worried about toxicity of metal electrodes

Postby coolate » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:53 am

I am building my own unit. Has anyone used iron plates? I know they will erode fast, but will it cause any other issues?

back.fish
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: Worried about toxicity of metal electrodes

Postby back.fish » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:19 pm

I'm not an expert, but if you don't want to use aluminium electrodes, you could try out silicone ones for iontophoresis, Small ones are available, too.
Last edited by back.fish on Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.


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